kanotix.com :: Thema anzeigen - Package requests for 2006.1

kanotix.com

Kanotix Requests - Package requests for 2006.1

danboid - 01.05.2006, 22:51 Uhr
Titel: Package requests for 2006.1

gimp-print
xsane instead of the current scaning gui (can't remember its name)
nano

the first program I always install after dist-upgrading kanotix is normally

synaptic

but you probably want to avoid big GTK apps

and the really unlikely multimedia essentials I'll never get on the CD Smilie

flash-plugin non-free
**censored**
**censored**
xmms-musepack
jre

Get the top 3 in and I'd be happy!

slh - 01.05.2006, 23:42 Uhr
Titel: Package requests for 2006.1

jre is and always was included.

Crust - 02.05.2006, 00:36 Uhr
Titel: RE: Package requests for 2006.1

jre version 1.4 is included. I think he's talking about Sun Java 5 (also referred to as 1.5).

I have 1.5.0_06 installed.

-Crust

jackiebrown - 02.05.2006, 00:37 Uhr
Titel: RE: Package requests for 2006.1

kano gave a reason for that, i think it was size or something.

kanotixkudos - 05.05.2006, 05:25 Uhr
Titel:

I request that Kgpg be again included. It is not in Easter-R2.

Also, Open Office. It is large but I believe much better than KOffice.

Perhaps Enigmail along with Thunderbird.

Kanotix is great! Smilie

jiro - 05.05.2006, 14:51 Uhr
Titel:

kgpg
openoffice.org
superkaramba
ksudoku
kanotix-update-gui

(thanks for a superb distro...)

Richard - 06.05.2006, 16:42 Uhr
Titel: Re: Package requests for 2006.1

danboid hat folgendes geschrieben::

gimp-print
xsane instead of the current scaning gui (can't remember its name)
nano

the first program I always install after dist-upgrading kanotix is normally, synaptic
....

Happy to find out what scan gui is active.

I can live with everything else, so long as Krusader is available after boot.

regards,
Richard.

rich.bradshaw - 06.05.2006, 17:52 Uhr
Titel: RE: Re: Package requests for 2006.1

kanotix-update-gui should definatly be included...

devil - 06.05.2006, 18:54 Uhr
Titel: RE: Re: Package requests for 2006.1

rich,
i guess it will not be included. it can be helpfull sometimes, but for n00bs to rely on it can be harmfull, for example with dist-upgrades, if special parameters or precautions have to be taken.

greetz
devil

kenyee - 06.05.2006, 23:49 Uhr
Titel: RE: Re: Package requests for 2006.1

ditto...I've stopped using it as well after it didn't go back to the UI for me once and I had to learn all the steps KUI took to do the dist-upgrade. It's not that big a deal. Doing ctrl-alt-F1, then su init 3, then dist upgrade then su init 5 isn't that big a deal after you've done it a few times...

piper - 07.05.2006, 17:06 Uhr
Titel: RE: Re: Package requests for 2006.1

More BEER

cheko - 07.05.2006, 17:10 Uhr
Titel: RE: Re: Package requests for 2006.1

Katapult is one of the cool apps:

apt-get install katapult
1872K

Katapult is an application, which analyses text-based queries to launch items, such as bookmarks, directories or programs.
The application is currently in an early stage of development but the launchable item list can be extended by a plugin system, and the look and feel can be skinned.

Homepages: http://sourceforge.net/projects/katapult https://developer.berlios.de/projects/kubuntupult/

Screenshots: http://sourceforge.net/project/screensh ... _id=132227

Richard - 11.06.2006, 18:10 Uhr
Titel: RE: Re: Package requests for 2006.1

I suggest that Xfce be considered for inclusion on the CD.
It is now only on the DVD.

Why? I have been using IceWM over Kde in Kanotix-Easter-rc4 up-to-date, in order to use some Kde apps. But I changed to Thunderbird since Kmail has been sort of freaky.
At the same time, I changed to Xfce 3.9x. My system, P4-2.8GHz-512MB,
is now more responsive and stable than since I acquired it about a year ago.
Been using Kanotix since about 8-10 months ago. Of course, these are
all subjective observances.

Since then, the generally stability of the entire system has improved notably.
I can always install Kanotix without Gnome nor KDE and then get Xfce,
but it would be nice --if it can be fitted. Even preferred on the "Lite" version,
my personal favorite, since I prefer to get the latest stable from OOo. Actually,
already installed in separate /opt partition.
And Krusader only needs kdelibs and a couple of others
to run fine in Xfce.

Regards and thanks for a superb distro,
Richard.

slh - 11.06.2006, 19:25 Uhr
Titel: RE: Re: Package requests for 2006.1

IceWM takes less CD space than XFCE and is quite acceptable for slow systems in live mode (small memory footprint), so xfce is not an option although I personally like it. Furthermore there is no DVD right now.

turtaf - 16.06.2006, 13:25 Uhr
Titel:

Hi all, I just upgraded my laptopo to easter rc4 (as I was having problem I decided to make a new install) and after a bit of customization I can say :
WWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this is impressive, adept is the best apt tool ever, sound goes great, I have no more touchpad problems and kde 3.5 is awesome!!!!!

Now what really would make this distro the perfect one is XGL, Ididn't think of it as a great innovation, but I fell in love with it as I tried kororaa live cd to see it...

Another question: are you guys planning to stay on i586 architecture, or maybe starting using an i686 one????

Thanks again for the great material provided. Getting beter and better, wish you all the best

slam - 16.06.2006, 14:25 Uhr
Titel:

Although some hard core Gentoo fans still insist on it - there is no reasonable measureable difference in processing speed if you restrict your compilation to i686. What you really can measure is that that way you definitely close out older machines from using it at all ...
Another myth talks about faster kernels if unused modules are left out - actually you will not recognize any difference (except a couple of seconds in boot up time).
If you really need more speed, the solution is mostly trivial - go and get faster hardware. Winken

Greetings,
Chris

turtaf - 16.06.2006, 15:53 Uhr
Titel:

thanks for your answer, and what about reiser4 filsystem? I'm asking, 'cause I once tried yoper linux and I found it very fast, and the main differences were that it's compiled on i686 and uses reiser4.
It's just curiosity, not a critic, I definetly prefer kanotix, just wondering how things work on the os-es

thanks again

cheers

piper - 16.06.2006, 15:59 Uhr
Titel:

reiser4 filsystem is still very buggy unless things have changed and I am sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong

slam - 16.06.2006, 16:18 Uhr
Titel:

Yoper was fast for one single very special reason (not because it was compiled for i686 or used the buggy reiser4):
It had pre-loaded and pre-linked KDE and several applications. This is a nice trick for a live-CD or a system that will never change, but please be aware that the effect does not remain after your first dist-upgrade. Actually it leads into several problems you would not be able to solve easily.

For some reason the Yoper developer decided to give up his distro and is employed at Novell/Suse now. Winken

Greetings,
Chris

turtaf - 25.06.2006, 13:13 Uhr
Titel:

Ok, so that's why I had my RAM more used on Yoper, I think.

Thanks guys for the explanation

Uh, for sure a kanotix request I have is kerry-beagle, in order to have beagle working and well integrated on kde. I'd use it a lot

cheers

Paul.G - 27.06.2006, 22:56 Uhr
Titel:

I'll second the previous request for XFCE. I find IceWM too basic in appearance though lightweight. My objective is to wean Windows users (whose broken computers I fix) over to Linux. Appearance and simplicity is a big factor. Also KDE seems too bloated and slow (on older machines) to me though it has many options.

I know there can be hundreds of personal favourite type themes, but there needs to be a default professional type appearance to attract the largest number of people. XFCE icons and a handful of the standard XFCE themes are the best of all the themes I've seen on Linux distributions. (I'm basing this actually on a Live CD of Vector I tried with the startup option of 'XFCE-Rox' which it offers.)

The other thing needed to meet my objective is improvement in the default font appearance which after some research means (at the moment) recompiling the Freetype font renderer with the 'ByteCodeInterpreter' switched on, a setting of 96dpi and the use of the msttcorefonts. There is also a solution here which I am currently using: http://kanotix.com/PNphpBB2-viewtopic-t-18830.html - I don't see why both this and the 'ByteCode Interpreter' can't be implemented as standard - Suse (which I also find bloated and slow) and also I hear, Gentoo, enable the BCI.

I can find a way to set these things up myself in time, but either an easy menu based option or the default of these things will make a quick and easy conversion to Linux possible for my customers.

spacepenguin - 29.06.2006, 21:49 Uhr
Titel:

I propose kdelibs4-dev and kdebase-dev. In a gamin compatible version. I'm really sick of always having to remove gamin to install the kde header files and not to be able to install xcfe4 because of that.
http://kanotix.com/index.php?name=PNphp ... 717#119717

And I think we should stay with the lightweight icewm (instead of xcfe4) and look for a way to get synaptic on the cd instead of adept.

slh - 30.06.2006, 01:02 Uhr
Titel:

Definately not going to happen, CD space is rare and KDE is updating quite often.

Paul.G - 15.08.2006, 23:11 Uhr
Titel:

Here's my request summary, after some experimenting and investigation, from a desktop usability viewpoint.

1) As part of the installer menu selection, options for a choice of font preference:
a) Traditional Linux
b) Windows style (msttcorefonts pre-installed, 96 dpi, no anti-alias(7-12pt), latest BCI-enabled Freetype)
c) Mac style (Lucida Grande font - if possible? - and anti-alias on).
All three options would benefit from 'dpkg-reconfigure fontconfig-config' being run as part of the installation process by default.

2) XFCE with standard themes as default or an option on the installer menu.

3) The Engage E17 dock as default or an option offered by the installer. (Integrated into XFCE).

4) A streamlined best-of-desktop package selection with just one or two alternatives per function. Built in iPod and msn functionality would be desirable.

Also, a simple stylish logo (instead of the 'cuddly toy' penguin type....) and a quality default wallpaper.

My rationale is that the default desktop needs to be most suitable for ordinary people. Tech people can easily customize for themselves. At the moment I have to do a lot of heavy customizing and updating to get something that ordinary users will like and therefore be able to use. This means that due to time constraints I can't really offer kanotix to broken
windows users.

Kanotix could find a niche amongst tech users and stay there with a loyal following like many Linux distros seem to. But having looked hard, Kanotix - being proper 'Debian plus' - is the best basis I have found for a Mepis/Ubuntu/Suse beating desktop that could really have wide appeal.

h2 - 16.08.2006, 00:26 Uhr
Titel:

Paul, I can answer some of these:

1. msttcorefonts cannot be distributed I believe, although it's fully legal for users to install it themselves

2. there is not enough room to have another windows manager in the cdrom, it already comes with icewm and kde and I think twm.

3. e17 is still alpha

4. would depend on somebody wanting to write that, which would mean that one of the kanotix team members thinks that's something interesting enough to spend their free time on.

What a desktop should look like is an odd question, it has to default to something, I'm fairly sure the new version is going to have extremely different graphics and splash stuff, but I haven't taken a look at the latest options.

Also, keep in mind that free projects like these do not necessarily benefit from expanding their user bases too far. Unlike mepis or ubuntu, which are both essentially commercial distros using debian derived sources, kanotix is currently a fully free distro, in the spirit of debian, not ubuntu. Who supports the larger user base? Who pays the extra server fees? Who supplies the bandwidth required? Who supports the newbie users on the forums or irc? And why? These are questions worth asking before suggesting that expanding user base to less tech savy users is a desirable project.

jackiebrown - 16.08.2006, 02:35 Uhr
Titel:

turtaf hat folgendes geschrieben::

Uh, for sure a kanotix request I have is kerry-beagle, in order to have beagle working and well integrated on kde. I'd use it a lot

cheers

kerry beagle hit the sid repos about 2 days ago Sehr glücklich

Paul.G - 16.08.2006, 23:22 Uhr
Titel:

H2,

Msttcorefonts can be redistributed, only not for profit and with a little pruning of multiple redundant programs there'd be plenty of space on the 2 Gb+ of compressed data for a lightweight desktop like XFCE.

Engage functions fine by itself and as a far as I know doesn't need all of E17. Here's an example: http://www.dreamlinux.com.br/english/index.html

Fonts and Engage/E17 are two of the biggest single subject threads on Kanotix and so are not unimportant even to the existing user base.

Lastly, the answer to all of your questions and the best motivation for both market and voluntary productivity is 'satisfied users'.

slh - 17.08.2006, 00:12 Uhr
Titel:

msttcorefonts cannot be distributed as part of another product like Kanotix for legal reasons. h2 has answered the rest "there is not enough room to have another windows manager in the cdrom", additionally xfce depends on gamin which has proven itself to be a ressource hog. Since all software packages are constantly growing, you'd have to show us how to free up twice as much as you'd need for your favourite package - and even then we'd probably prefer getting Kanotix smaller and to implement more features instead of adding yet another desktop environment - 703 MB is a fixed size.

Daniele - 18.08.2006, 02:52 Uhr
Titel:

I'd like to see support for Intel GMA 900/950 3d acceleration.

spacepenguin - 20.08.2006, 14:47 Uhr
Titel:

slh hat folgendes geschrieben::

additionally xfce depends on gamin which has proven itself to be a ressource hog.

Then it would be a logical consequence to *not* use gamin with Kanotix and instead put libfam on the CD. I really would appreciate that.

Maybe you could add a script (kdialog?) that prods the user to take notice of some additional programs/packages not included. I think e.g. of anacron, synaptic, msttcorefonts and postfix. There could be a short explanation why it is not included ("not enough space", "makes no sense on a live-cd", "license problem") and why it would make sense to install those packages when installing Kanotix to HD. Then the user could choose which of these packages he/she wants to add to the installation.

Why? Mostly because not every user who has downloaded Kanotix was using it before and not everyone is familiar with the available and useful packages.

edit:
Oh, and a very profane yet annoying thing (no package request but request for the next Kanotix version): When upgrading to a new kernel the menu.lst entry always is much too long for the grub menu which doesn't look very good. So I suggest renaming the first entry in the grub menu to "Kanotix kernel....." instead of "Debian GNU/Linux kernel...". It also is more - well, Kanotix like.

Kano - 20.08.2006, 15:22 Uhr
Titel:

@ Daniele

perl -pi -e 's/#*\s*(deb.*debian experimental)/\1/' /etc/apt/sources.list
apt-get update
apt-get install xserver-xorg-video-i810 libgl1-mesa-glx libgl1-mesa-dri -t experimental
perl -pi -e 's/#*\s*(deb.*debian experimental)/#\1/' /etc/apt/sources.list
apt-get updatel

Gowator - 21.08.2006, 13:09 Uhr
Titel:

h2 hat folgendes geschrieben::

Paul, I can answer some of these:

Also, keep in mind that free projects like these do not necessarily benefit from expanding their user bases too far. Unlike mepis or ubuntu, which are both essentially commercial distros using debian derived sources, kanotix is currently a fully free distro, in the spirit of debian, not ubuntu. Who supports the larger user base? Who pays the extra server fees? Who supplies the bandwidth required? Who supports the newbie users on the forums or irc? And why? These are questions worth asking before suggesting that expanding user base to less tech savy users is a desirable project.

I pretty much see that and I have the opinion that when you introduce a noobie then you should take responsibility for them in some ways.

Remember that in many ways you are doing the noobie a favor ... not kanotix..be prepared to acts as 1st line support for them and such.

Perhaps its possible to organise this part a little more? but who? Its not a good use of dev time organising that so it should fall to the "intermediate" users who want to introduce others?

Daniele - 21.08.2006, 14:52 Uhr
Titel:

Kano hat folgendes geschrieben::

Thanks Kano Sehr glücklich

JimC - 13.09.2006, 02:07 Uhr
Titel:

A working version of digiKam 0.9.0 Beta 1 (or the current beta or rc when the next Kanotix or Kanotix RC is released), along with the new digikam plugins beta.

Poor support for 16 bit image editing is a big problem with Linux, especially since Digital SLR models are the most rapidly growing market segment with Digital Camera purchasers and more users are shooting raw now, and this new version of digiKam supports 16 bit editing (finally).

It's in Debian Experimental. But, it doesn't actually work with raw files if you install it by forcing the version in Synapticc. The demos on the digiKam web show it working with raw files (inluding files from some of the cameras I tried with it). But, no go with the package from Debian Experimental (works with jpeg OK though).

So, my assumption is that something is wrong with the packages (or compatibility using them with 2006-easter-rc4 due to some kind of dependency issues).

A reasonably up to date version of dcraw.c would be a good idea, too. Ditto for the Gimp plugin.

The versions of dcraw.c in most Linux repositories are shamefully out of date, especially since new camera models are added very often. Most Linux repositories are stuck at around 7.94 (when Dave's latest version is already up to 8.38 ).

You can't just wait 6 or 8 months after a new camera is introduced to start supporting it in current Linux distros and repositories if you want to attract users of newer digital cameras.

The most requested application for Linux is Photoshop according to surveys performed by Novell. As bad as existing tools in Linux are for image editing, I can understand why.

But, it looks like progress is being made with some of the tools available for Linux now, if Linux distros would only include them.

Yes, users could compile this stuff from source themselves. But, if you want to attract users to Linux, these types of tools need to be included (or at least easily installable from packages in repositories).

slam - 13.09.2006, 08:59 Uhr
Titel:

Jim,

I fully agree with you here - alternatives to most wanted applications in Linux should be up-to-date. However, we depend on Debian maintainers here, in order to beware system consistency. So, best idea would be to communicate your wishes and thoughts directly to the responsible maintainers:

Code:

apt-cache show digikam|grep Maintainer

Maintainer: Debian KDE Extras Team <pkg-kde-extras@lists.alioth.debian.org>

apt-cache show dcraw|grep Maintainer

Maintainer: Steve King <debian@twobit.demon.co.uk>

You might probably even being able to assist them with testing, and speeding up the process of integration that way.

Greetings,
Chris

JimC - 14.09.2006, 04:11 Uhr
Titel:

You're right Slam. It's not really a Kanotix issue, and I realize you guys try to stay tied as closely to Debian as possible.

I'll send an e-mail to the package maintainers and try to make a case for why these types of packages need to be kept up to date.

They may not be aware of it (although it seems to me if someone has volunteered to maintain a package, they'd actually keep it relatively up to date).

I saw the same thing with packages like HPLIP last year (most repositories were *WAY* out of date, even though HP provides newer tools and drivers for Linux.

That seems to be improving with Debian now. I see relatively current versions of HPLIP and related packages.

It looks like Ubuntu and SimplyMEPIS are falling behind again now though (the latest version of HPLIP is 7 versions behind in their repositories).

Some of the Slackware based distros are now 10 versions behind with HPLIP modules (for example modules available for Slax). lol

I've been looking at lighter distros lately to try and find one my wife might like, and most of them don't seem to keep something as basic as newer printer drivers and related tools up to date, even when the printer manufacturer provides them.

So, if I had to buy new printer tomorrow, it might be difficult to find one that actually works with a lot of distros without compiling from source (espcially a multi-function type printer that you want to use for printing and scanning). Stores don't stock the old ones anymore. Smilie

Debian seems to be trying to keep them up to date lately though, and tools like the HPLIP toolbox let you align heads, clean nozzles, etc., without the need to use Windows.

JimC - 16.09.2006, 07:43 Uhr
Titel:

slam hat folgendes geschrieben::

I now see dcraw.c 8.23 in the repositories. So, the maintainer must have updated it. I was just checking the version to see if it had changed from dcraw 7.94 before sending an e-mail, and was surprised to see 8.23 in the repositories.

I also have digiKam 0.9.0 Beta 1 RC1 (and the new beta digikamplugins) working fine under Kanotix 2006-01-RC1, including proper rendering of raw files, after forcing the versions with Synaptic (getting it from Debian Experimental).

On the surface, I can see a *huge* improvement when making edits in 16 bit mode (gets around the posterization problems I was seeing with digiKam 0.8.2). It doesn't appear to default to 16 bit editing. So, it could use a bit of tweaking to reduce the number of steps a user needs to make to get better images.

It also does not appear to support the as shot white balance information from the camera, even though it's supported by dcraw.c. Instead, it always defaults to a specific color temperature.

This could end up being a show stopper for a lot of photographers that shoot in raw and use custom white balance settings (or even those that want an editor to be aware of how the camera's auto white balance saw a scene).

One of the most important considerations for many photographers is how well a raw converter supports the camera's white balance settings (which are basically rgb multipliers to compensate for the temperature of the lighting), and digiKam does not appear to support this when shooting in raw (even though dcraw.c does). So, you'd have to set the color temperature manually with it for each photo (or try to read the temperature from a photo of a white or gray card taken in the same lighting to set it).

I'll try to spend some time in it and give some feedback to the developer. But, it appears to have made a lot of progress, especially now that you can edit in 16 bit mode, based on a few quick tests.

Paul.G - 19.10.2006, 01:01 Uhr
Titel: Search is over

One reason I have stopped posting/complaining is, after months of searching, I've stopped looking for an XP replacement - I have found everything in Kanotix Debian based DreamLinux: http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distri ... dreamlinux

I found it before it went into the Distrowatch top 20 over the last 30 days.

My wife, a computer beginner, actually asked for it in preference to XP and has been using it with no problems for the last several weeks.

Everything I have sought by way of font appearance, Engage dock, best/most useable software, lean fast operation and stylish appearance is built in as standard.

For Jim C and others - fonts this time are very good with AA on and even better by choosing 'slight' Hinting instead of 'full'. Thick, solid and no blur. I use that in combination with the 'Piranha' window theme for a professional appearance. It takes 30 seconds and that's it.

Graphics stuff built in includes Gimpshop, GTKam, Xara LX, Inkscape, Picasa and others. IPods, video/DVDs and cameras just work.

But it's not for geeks - until they come home and want to relax.

So, thanks Kanotix for the excellent base - maybe you'll incorporate some suggestions in future so I can use the whole thing? Don't let the cosy-clique elite geeks take over! Pride drives them to volunteer to create over complicated, inefficient, stuff that outsiders can't use or understand. Valid and obvious criticism can then be dismissed as being from ignoramuses - it was the same 25 years ago when I started programming. Besides, there are already enough roll-your-own tech distros - why should Kanotix only try to be the best of those?